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Discussion Starter #21
Looks like we might see the Toro in the US.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170209/OEM04/170209804/fiat-toro-pickup-headed-to-u-s-gilles-hints-toward-yes

CHICAGO -- Is Fiat Chrysler thinking about adding the Fiat Toro -- a small lifestyle pickup on sale in Latin America -- to its U.S. Fiat lineup?

Ralph Gilles, global head of design for FCA, seemed to indicate so.

Speaking today at the Chicago Auto Show, Gilles showed an image of the new Fiat Toro pickup, and promised: “You’re going to be seeing more from Fiat on the truck side, especially.”
 

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With people looking for SUV alternatives that comes to no surprise and what helps is looking at how similar truck segments have been taking off, very soon the dots start to connect and you see where this fits in. But that still has me wondering why Hyundai hasn't picked up the pace on the Santa Cruz, even Mercedes is beating them to the race.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
No plans for the Toro in the US:

https://twitter.com/RalphGilles/status/829744264938737665

Hyundai is still supposedly working on the Santa Cruz so it sounds like it is still on schedule for the average amount of time it takes to bring a new vehicle to market.

I'm sure they're closely watching the segment to determine how they will proceed. The new Ridgeline is a good indicator of (smaller than fullsize truck) market acceptance. Tacoma sells 15k+ units monthly, GM sells about 10k, while the Ridgeline is still around 2k. An even smaller Santa Cruz sounds like a tough sell. Hyundai really needs to make sure they maintain the styling of the concept.
 

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The Ridgeline is just terrible.

But hopefully Hyundai doesn't drop the ball on this one. If they're spending this vast amount of time running R&D, this better be something good.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
The Ridgeline is just terrible.

But hopefully Hyundai doesn't drop the ball on this one. If they're spending this vast amount of time running R&D, this better be something good.
Terrible at what? Its the best midsize truck on the market based on how the average owner uses their truck. Problem is most truck owners don't actually need a truck. They're only looking for a certain image, which the styling of the Ridgeline doesn't portray.
 

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Ridgeline starts at almost $30K. That explains 13K units/mo behind Tacoma.

Hyundai seems to have the price point right. I'd even wait for the Kia version to save a bit more.
 

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Gonna have to agree that Ridgeline is pointless.

Looking at the 2016 sales of mid-sized pickups, the Tacoma sold close to 170k more units than the Ridgeline did. Aside from that, the Ridgeline came in dead last with the yearly sales totaling less than 24k.

It's a front wheel drive pickup that apparently can't tow/haul a good amount of load properly and can't take much abuse. Not much has changed with it over the years either and the sales are horrendous for a reason. It's like an SUV in pickup form. Basing it on how the average owner uses their truck doesn't make it the best at anything.

 

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With the direction Toyota has taken with the Tacoma by offering a TRD version it has me thinking that Hyundai would need something more like that with the Santa Cruz because the Tacoma is proof people are willing to pay more, even if its just for image and not putting that capability to use.

I don't know about you guys but even without venturing out of the city, I would still go for something TRD-like...

 

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Discussion Starter #29
The Ridgeline just went on sale in June. So with production ramp-up and only half a year of sales they didn't do too bad.

I'm confused - I thought everyone here was excited about the Santa Cruz because it a smaller stylish version of a unibody truck - a smaller good looking Ridgeline. The Ridgeline can still actually tow 5k lbs, is at the top of the midsized segment in payload, and actually performs pretty respectably offroad with its fancy AWD system. It has the most interior room, best V6 mpg, quickest acceleration...

The Santa Cruz will not be able to do any of that. Its literally a compact crossover (which is just a lifted compact sedan) with the back chopped off, and slick styling. If you think the Ridgeline is useless, you're setting yourself up for huge disappointment if the Santa Cruz stays true to the concept.
 

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@BahamaTodd , I'd agree with you on that one and I think that's the point in realization I'm at, at this point. Nonetheless, would like to see a finished product of it, albeit whenever that is. BUT probably will start shopping around and making a decision based on something else.
 

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In answer to the age old question which comes 1st chicken or egg?

CAFE comes 1st. If truck is under 7.0 m2 "footprint"/6000lbs GVWR, then it needs to get 36 mpg CAFE rating increasing to 42 by 2021. If it is over, it only needs to get 25. Which is why we only see "mid sized" trucks from Toyota/Chevrolet/etc and only in super/crew cabs. Regular cab, short box would drop footprint too small.

But I don't want something 4" wider/24" longer than my '98 Ranger, payload of >2,500lb/5k lb towing; I don't need that or the 4k lbs of truck needed to achieve that. I actually want something as small/smaller than original Ranger which is 3" narrower/12" shorter than my '98; 750-1k lb payload/3,500lb towing meets my requirement. I have seriously looked at Ridgeline - don't like the high load height for box, but understand Honda had 3 choices: high, narrow or solid rear axle and narrow and solid rear axle weren't happening. And I don't like the pastel colours of Ridgeline - give me something bold - Jeeps glowing orange / lime green or equivalent (Silver of concept with its yellow accents is just on edge of acceptable).

So, Santa Cruz has to stay close to original concept or I am not interested. And I liked the styling - CUV with external bed, so I can carry messy, oversized "stuff" without the sandwich maker losing her mind about getting things dirty.

Fiat Toro is same size as the Ridgeline, Tacoma, GMC twins, etc. (Kind of shocked me when I originally looked at the specs, I was expecting a Strados size vehicle). With it being same size as the predicted Jeep pickup, Toro has always been a non-starter in North American market.

I will be acting in next 18 months; so, Hyundai better act or I will have a new Ranger/Jeep pickup/Tacoma in the garage instead.
 

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The Wrangler Pickup I feel will be separated from the class to a certain extent. A lot more rugged, a lot more capable in the off-road sector. A lot of people were putting the Raptors against the Wrangler Pickup as competition as well as the Tacoma TRD Pro.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
The Wrangler Pickup I feel will be separated from the class to a certain extent. A lot more rugged, a lot more capable in the off-road sector. A lot of people were putting the Raptors against the Wrangler Pickup as competition as well as the Tacoma TRD Pro.
Well with its longer wheelbase the Wrangler pickup will lose that part of its offroad advantage. It will be interesting to see comparisons to its primary competitors: Tacoma TRD Pro and Colorado ZR2.
 
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