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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any thoughts on how the DCT AWD will compare to the (standard) AWD in a Crosstrek? Reading on other forums it seems Honda's iVTM-4 is far superior to Hyundai's technology due to the ability to provide up to 70% of the engine's power to the rear wheels or spinning the outer rear wheel faster while turning; of course, does this actually translate to improved handling in ice/snow?
 

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Subaru's AWD will always be superior. It's full-time and symmetrical. If I'm not mistaken, Hyundai uses a "slip'n'grip" system where it waits until it detects slippage to redirect power to the appropriate wheels. (asymmetrical) Subaru's system is always sending power to all wheels. (symmetrical)
 

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It depends on what transmission you choose in the Crosstrek. The manual trans still uses the old school full-time 50/50 split center diff, but the CVT transmissions use an 'active' system very much like you'd find in most other AWD systems these days:


I'm not aware that Subaru's systems can actually send more power to one wheel or another like Honda's apparently can, I think it relies solely on applying brakes to the wheel(s) (via electronics) that are spinning to try and redistribute power where needed.

Subaru still use equal length half shafts, so it's still a 'symmetrical' system but I'm not sure how much that matters in real life vs. being marketing mumbo jumbo..
 

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Subaru's AWD will always be superior. It's full-time and symmetrical. If I'm not mistaken, Hyundai uses a "slip'n'grip" system where it waits until it detects slippage to redirect power to the appropriate wheels. (asymmetrical) Subaru's system is always sending power to all wheels. (symmetrical)
Would locking the center differential make them pretty much equivalent? Seems to me that asysmmetrical would be more efficient for normal driving, leaving you the option to lock the center differential in only when needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It depends on what transmission you choose in the Crosstrek. The manual trans still uses the old school full-time 50/50 split center diff, but the CVT transmissions use an 'active' system very much like you'd find in most other AWD systems these days:


I'm not aware that Subaru's systems can actually send more power to one wheel or another like Honda's apparently can, I think it relies solely on applying brakes to the wheel(s) (via electronics) that are spinning to try and redistribute power where needed.

Subaru still use equal length half shafts, so it's still a 'symmetrical' system but I'm not sure how much that matters in real life vs. being marketing mumbo jumbo..
My wife is driving the automatic transmission Crosstrek which performed quite well the last two winters we had (smooth sailing and pretty easy starting despite deep slush/snow) compared to my '08 Sonata. When we had heavy snows or were plowed in the difference was hilarious (there would be no getting to work at 5 am before side roads were plowed without using the Crosstrek). I know fairly little about mechanical things so it is often difficult for me to decipher "marking mumbo jumbo" as you said versus what traits truly make a difference on the roads.
 

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My wife is driving the automatic transmission Crosstrek which performed quite well the last two winters we had (smooth sailing and pretty easy starting despite deep slush/snow) compared to my '08 Sonata. When we had heavy snows or were plowed in the difference was hilarious (there would be no getting to work at 5 am before side roads were plowed without using the Crosstrek). I know fairly little about mechanical things so it is often difficult for me to decipher "marking mumbo jumbo" as you said versus what traits truly make a difference on the roads.
I'm not trying to talk down Subaru's system at all. They have the reputation as being the best, and I can't argue that -- I've never owned one. The real world performance of their systems seem to speak for itself... owners rave how great they are in bad weather.

My point was more, I think other manufacturers have closed that gap. Subaru's system(s) is still great, but the others have gotten better along the way. Before the days of electronic brake torque vectoring things like equal length drive shafts probably meant more than it does now. I believe the advanced electronics these days have greatly improved all manufacturer's systems and I would expect HTRAC (or any other modern system) to perform similarly to your Crosstrek (y)
 

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Would locking the center differential make them pretty much equivalent?
If it was a truly locking center diff? Probably close. But these days, most of those "lock" buttons are really "suggestion" buttons that don't do a whole lot. Varies by manufacturer though. I always like watching TFL Truck do their AWD testing on the rollers. The three wheels spinning/one on the ground is usually the one that tells you how the system really works. Some fare better than others.
 

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Any thoughts on how the DCT AWD will compare to the (standard) AWD in a Crosstrek? Reading on other forums it seems Honda's iVTM-4 is far superior to Hyundai's technology due to the ability to provide up to 70% of the engine's power to the rear wheels or spinning the outer rear wheel faster while turning; of course, does this actually translate to improved handling in ice/snow?
From what I've read the Sport mode for the SC Turbo DCT transmits 70% of the power to the real wheels. I'm imagining it'll be pretty quick in that mode.
 

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a post of mine from an earlier date:
 

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Good link! Basically it's a full-time all-wheel drive system, with a variable front-rear power delivery ratio.
That's an interesting article. I'm 99% certain that the article I read showed 70% of the power to rear wheels in Sport mode. I wonder if they made changes in the programming for the SC?
 

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It depends on what transmission you choose in the Crosstrek. The manual trans still uses the old school full-time 50/50 split center diff, but the CVT transmissions use an 'active' system very much like you'd find in most other AWD systems these days:


I'm not aware that Subaru's systems can actually send more power to one wheel or another like Honda's apparently can, I think it relies solely on applying brakes to the wheel(s) (via electronics) that are spinning to try and redistribute power where needed.

Subaru still use equal length half shafts, so it's still a 'symmetrical' system but I'm not sure how much that matters in real life vs. being marketing mumbo jumbo..
The Honda has a great system. "The VTM-4 and iVTM-4 AWD systems on the larger Hondas can send up to 70% of available torque to the rear and the latter can send up to 100% of that amount to either rear wheel making the vehicle much more capable."
 

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If it was a truly locking center diff? Probably close. But these days, most of those "lock" buttons are really "suggestion" buttons that don't do a whole lot. Varies by manufacturer though. I always like watching TFL Truck do their AWD testing on the rollers. The three wheels spinning/one on the ground is usually the one that tells you how the system really works. Some fare better than others.
The AWD lock button on the SC only functions under 37 MPH. Odd value but that what it is. Same with downhill decent control = only under 37 MPH.

One thing I haven't seen talked about is Snow mode. Its mentioned in the manual but all we've seen listed is Normal (Comfort?), Sport and Smart. I believe the Canadian models get different modes too. Snow mode says it adjusted left and right wheel slip along with engine torque and shift patterns based on traction levels. Sounds like low-tide boat ramp mode to this never driven in below 40 degrees FL driver :p
 

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Yeah, I believe the snow mode is unique to the Canadian market.

As for 37mph, it's not an odd number at all. Blame America's steadfast resistance to the metric system. 37mph is exactly 60km/h... the standard unit of measure in almost every country on earth, including Korea, where Hyundai is based. :)
 

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Yeah, I believe the snow mode is unique to the Canadian market.

As for 37mph, it's not an odd number at all. Blame America's steadfast resistance to the metric system. 37mph is exactly 60km/h... the standard unit of measure in almost every country on earth, including Korea, where Hyundai is based. :)
Snow mode is in US models.... or at least per the manual and quick reference guide (just posted).

Ahhh yes the metric system conversion, makes perfect sense - thank you.
 

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As for 37mph, it's not an odd number at all. Blame America's steadfast resistance to the metric system. 37mph is exactly 60km/h... the standard unit of measure in almost every country on earth, including Korea, where Hyundai is based. :)
The power of 3! If you count the bones on all your fingers using your thumb you get 12. We be a primitive folk in America :p and love the fraction advantages of 12.
 

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Subaru has at least four AWD systems which all operate a bit differently. "Symmetrical" is a marketing term that refers to the length of the half shafts - not the application of power to the wheels which is anything but symmetrical. :)

The Santa Cruz's HTRAC AWD system uses open front and rear differentials with an electronically-controlled center clutch - a "run of the mill system" just like the vast majority of other AWD vehicles on the road today despite its fancy acronym.

None of those systems offer true torque vectoring.

A true torque-vectoring AWD system like Honda's iVTM-4 (and Acura's similar SH-AWD) and the GKN twin-clutch system used in the now-defunct Focus RS and Regal TourX offers superior performance in low-traction situations.

Honda's iVTM-4 overdrives the rear wheels by 2.7% and can send all rear-axle torque to a single wheel without relying on the brakes. This allows a single rear wheel to push the vehicle through a turn by creating a yaw moment and sending most torque to the wheel with the most traction.

Most AWD vehicles get into trouble when one front wheel and one rear wheel lose traction (i.e. one side of the vehicle is on ice while the other side is on asphalt or when diagonal wheels are in the air due to uneven terrain). The vehicle can brake the spinning wheel which will force power to the other wheel on the same axle, but this is a somewhat crude method of transferring power.

A system like Honda's iVTM-4 uses two clutches - one for each rear wheel. This allows torque to be sent directly to the wheel with greater traction proactively without having to reactively apply the brakes to the spinning wheel.

What's the real-world difference? A Ridgeline, for example, will have a bit more of a rear-wheel drive feel and will navigate split-mu surfaces more gracefully and effectively.
 
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