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Wow people really hate hyudai / kia.
I am still thinking about getting santa cruz over maverick because of reliability.

Why do people think hyundai is crap? Does people watching latest technology news? Japanese technology was superb in 80's 90' but not anymore.

I used to drive toyota all the time but when I bought my first 17 elantra it was way better than corolla. Now I trade 18 highlander to palisade, it drives much better. Maybe newer highlander is improved but assume pretty similar to 18.

In the future hyundai / kia will eventually beating many Japanese brand.
WHAT do you guys think?
 

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Toyotas makes decent, reliable vehicles…
I have a Toyota as my daily commuter, haven’t had any issues, when lease comes up in couple of years, it will likely be a Toyota, the hybrid version or the Prime (RAV4 plug in) if I can fine one.
I would not have considered any Hyundai’s, until a few years ago.

life is to short to hate on anything and everyone has their own taste…

as for Maverick, it’s a capable vehicle and seeing it in-person, looked better than the pictures (same for SC). However, it was crossed off my list very early, as soon as I found out, it’s equipped with a CVT…
 

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I grew up being told Toyota's will last forever if maintained....and Hyundai's were boring cheap basic throw-away cars... And I found out it was true about Toyota's, Heck I even sold Toyota's in the 80's ...
But in the last 10-15 years Hyundai has come a long way..They have the best styling I think and their drivetrains have surpassed all the big boys. and I've read how Toyota has started to slide in the reliability department and in styling they seem to be a follower.
Pertaining to the Maverick....I got tired of the hold up on the Hybrid,..And after driving an XLT and not liking the feeling of the seats and the weighted steering felt weird..and the interior felt really cheap and dated, oh sure it was a rocket but I don't need this, I wanted a small truck with decent power and good MPG....and in came the SE :)
 

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life is to short to hate on anything and everyone has their own taste…
Right on!

This is Chevy vs Ford, Mazda vs Honda, Toyota vs Nissan all over again. Whatever :rolleyes: ...I purchase what suits my needs at the present time. All modern brands are pretty good, there are exceptions (Mini, Alfa & BMW seem risky) but it often comes down to particular models. For example I feel my Corvette is an excellent value but I wouldn't be in a rush to buy other GM products which are sub-par.

In order I've owned: Ford, Honda (3X), Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Ford (again), VW, Dodge, Volvo, Nissan, Infiniti and Chevy since the mid 80s. Ironically the one brand that has never made a vehicle that interests me is Toyota. On our "never again" list is VW and Volvo due to the problems I had with those vehicles. And despite the internet telling you Dodge is crap my Dakota has been flawless. The best vehicles I've owned where Hondas, but today they make nothing that appeals to me. The only vehicle I immediately regretting purchasing was an Isuzu Rodeo. I owned it just 8 months before trading it back in, turns out I am not an SUV guy. There was nothing wrong with it... I just hated driving it after coming from three sporty and nimble Hondas.

Over the years my requirements for a vehicle have changed so I jump to the brand that has, what I think, is the best solution. Currently the Hyundai Santa Cruz checks all my boxes. Time will tell if this is a good choice or not.
 

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Toyota fans are in the defensive phase of acceptance. Hyundai/Kia are now winning all the reliability awards and glowing reviews that Toyota built its reputation on years ago. But there's always a delay between when reality changes and people's perspectives change. Hyundai/Kia are CONSISTENTLY ranked at or near the top of all manufacturers now. But people who've been around cars for a while (raises hand) still think of the 1980s disposable Pony or the early Elantras/Sonatas that were basically cheap, disposable cars. But a co-worker who was also a cab driver in her off hours started buying Sonatas after running them at work, and always raved how reliable they were - whether hard service taxi life OR in her driveway. And that's before they were getting as good as they are now!

Perception takes far longer to change than the products. Think about it yourself - after you've developed a hatred of a person/product, how long does it take before you're willing to change your mind, regardless of what may have changed since your mind was made up? Same thing here.
 

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Toyota fan boy here, my reason for buying the SC is that I shouldn't join the rest of the Toyota fanboys who bash Hyundai/Kia without actually owning 1 of their vehicles. I need proof that in real life ownership of a Hyundai/Kia = trouble, unreliable, problematic, PITA. So far nothing catastrophic, but missing fasteners, panel gaps, trim piece alignment, random clunking noise at warm startup just bother me and give me an impression of unrefinedness.

If I get a check engine light, fluid leak, or anything worse, even under warranty, I'd trade it in at a loss and write Hyundai/Kia off. Fingers cross that doesn't happen
 

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... Perception takes far longer to change than the products....
Yes, and it works either way. I was a diehard Honda guy for many, many years. But, even though Honda seemed to lose their way shortly into the 21st century, I still lingered along with them through thick and thin... until the Santa Cruz finally caught my attention.
 
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Brand loyalty can run deep. Especially on niche or enthusiast vehicles. Taco-Nation is certainly WAY up there.

As the 30 year reigning champ of the mid-size truck market, this is baked in amongst this group. Ask them about frame rust on Tacomas and watch the fun start.

Similary, Hyundai's recent engine failures can be something they would bring up.

This will happen on any forum. I watched for a decade on the Miata forum how insecure they could be about Boxsters and S2000s being just way too expensive and not much better than a Miata.

I bought a new Frontier after driving a new Tacoma (it was a horrible performing vehicle IMHO). I have ZERO loyalty to any manufacturer. But I found no redeeming quality in the Tacoma it has long been the default mid-size truck.

I'm sure it's redesign will then leapfrog the Frontier, but for now, not so much.
 

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Toyota fan boys gonna rave - nothing surprising there. Tacos in particular generate a lot of love, and for good reasons.

I love my Toyotas but I buy the vehicle that best suites my taste and needs and right now that is a SC. I currently drive a Tundra and my truck before that was a Taco, which I also loved. I think the FBs are upset because Toyota has nothing to compare to the SC and it will be years, if ever before they do. The Santa Cruz is such a stand out design that IMO there isn't anything to compare to it right now, and that is from another Toyota fan boy.
 

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Toyota has nothing to compare to the SC and it will be years, if ever before they do.
I think Toyota can just chop off the rear roof of the RAV4 Prime and turn it into a truck bed to compete, I'll want the plug-in hybrid powertrain of the RAV4 Prime over what SC turbo offers any day of the week. But you're right, unless small unibody truck becomes a huge success that sees 6 figure annual sales, Toyota most likely won't want to introduce a smaller truck to cannibalize Tacoma's marketshare
 

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But you're right, unless small unibody truck becomes a huge success that sees 6 figure annual sales,
Yep - I agree. It isn't that Toyota can't make a serious SC competitor but that they probably won't. That RAV4 Prime could be turned into a cool SAV or whatever, but Toyota doesn't do niche vehicles anymore. As you said, they are not worth their effort unless they can sell them in huge numbers.

Hyundai is willing to make lots of special vehicles with innovative designs and break some rules in the process. That lets them create really amazing vehicles, just like Toyota did many years ago when they were breaking into the big time.
 

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Well…Toyota owners conveniently forget about all the rotten frames under Tacos and Tundras AND their SUV brethren. I was on the phone with Toyota and was told “we don’t have a frame rust problem on the Tundra”…then I was on the phone with NHTSA…their initial warning to remove spares and put them in the bed was straight from my experience. “What are you worried about” NHTSA asked when I said my spare bracket had rotted off my frame and my tire was hanging down. I said Inwas worried about Tundras dripping spares in the highway like land mines killing people! I also appeared on channel 5 with investigative reporter Susan Wornick who broke the Tacoma issue. I am far from Toyota’s favorite customer, but I still bought another Tundra (2006 in 2010 traded in my rusty framed 2000). I just took much better care of the frame.
 

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Why do people think hyundai is crap?

WHAT do you guys think?
For me, there's a stigma associated with Hyundai and Kia that dates back to the entry-level models they sold here from the 1980's to the 2000's. A 2022 Hyundai Palisade is orders of magnitude more automobile than a 1986 Hyundai Excel, but I still can't shake that brand image of cheaply-built automobiles sold primarily to subprime borrowers. On the flip side, I still associate brands like Honda and Toyota with quality even though quality has declined. Despite dramatic improvements in virtually all areas over the last couple of decades, I still see Hyundai as a lower-tier brand. I think they're certainly worth considering and recommending, but I'm not willing to spend my own money on one yet.
 

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Yep - I agree. It isn't that Toyota can't make a serious SC competitor but that they probably won't. That RAV4 Prime could be turned into a cool SAV or whatever, but Toyota doesn't do niche vehicles anymore. As you said, they are not worth their effort unless they can sell them in huge numbers.

Hyundai is willing to make lots of special vehicles with innovative designs and break some rules in the process. That lets them create really amazing vehicles, just like Toyota did many years ago when they were breaking into the big time.
"Toyota doesn't do niche vehicles anymore".
Supra?
 

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I stand by my statement - Toyota does not manufacture niche vehicles, but they do sell some.

The MK V Supra is almost entirely made of BMW parts and assembled by Magna Steyr in Austria. Nothing wrong with either company, but it is not really a Toyota. The GR 86 is actually a Subaru, and although it is a great car, it is not really a Toyota either.

Toyota slips in and out of the top place for both number of vehicles sold and profits made and yet they can't come up with the money to design their own sports cars. Those of us who have owned Supras and MR2s find it sad that Toyota no longer wants to make their own niche vehicles, but I'm sure that helps them to make tons of money.
 

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Lamborghini uses an Audi V-10, Kia/Hyundai share engines/components,
VW owns Lamborghini and the V-10 is from them, not Audi. Audi does use it in their R8 which shares a platform with the Lamborghini Huracan. Hyundai, Kia and Genesis are all owned by Hyundai and it is only natural that they share major components within global Hyundai production.

Joint ventures are common but the Supra is essentially a Z4 with different body panels. From my perspective that is a badge job and not a joint venture.
 

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I stand by my statement - Toyota does not manufacture niche vehicles, but they do sell some.

The MK V Supra is almost entirely made of BMW parts and assembled by Magna Steyr in Austria. Nothing wrong with either company, but it is not really a Toyota. The GR 86 is actually a Subaru, and although it is a great car, it is not really a Toyota either.

Toyota slips in and out of the top place for both number of vehicles sold and profits made and yet they can't come up with the money to design their own sports cars. Those of us who have owned Supras and MR2s find it sad that Toyota no longer wants to make their own niche vehicles, but I'm sure that helps them to make tons of money.
It's pretty bad, to be honest. Toyota mostly just put up the $$$$ and tell BMW and Subaru to make some sports car and rebadge them.
I want the Toyota in-house designed, parts made by Toyota owned suppliers, and manufactured by Toyota trained hands in accordance with the Kaizen method blah blah. the GR 86 and Supra aren't. And rumor has it that the new MR2 is going to be a Porsche made EV.

So the only new true Toyota sports car, if you can call it, is going to be the GR Yaris/Corolla
 

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'04 Santa Fe
'07 Santa Fe
'10 Genesis Coupe
'13 Genesis Coupe
--- Hyundai stopped with the GC and I Mustang'd for three years...
'19 Veloster Turbo (OMG, so much fun!)
'22 SEL Limited (because I drive some minor off-road nature/wildlife hunting.

Since the '04 Santa Fe, we (my wife was diehard Toyota fan driving a 4-runner) have had a dozen H's. It's early, but can't wait to exercise this thing!
 
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