[scobb1960]

I understand your position and I am inclined to think that way.
But I do have a particular situation as the RV dealer installed a WD / Anti-sway hitch in my car when I went to pick up the travel trailer, as they recommended it. I believe that they didn't know the Santa Cruz very well and they were probably trying to sell more.
After the installation I traveled back home, from San Antionio to Houston and I will say that I never felt a struggle, even though I am a first time RVer, and I never towed anything in my life. Nevertheless, I would like to make an educated decision about what I am going to do now.
I just became aware that many people says that WDH are not recommended for Unibody vehicles (a lot of Subaru owners state that). I also read numerous articles, comments in forums and Facebook groups. There are lots of different opinions. I read the Santa Cruz manual and there are no indication of their position on the WDH, although they recommend the use of a sway prevention device. It is intriguing that Hyundai doesn't have a stance on it.
A quick solution for me will be removing the WDH and install a regular hitch with sway control and check how the truck responds.
Just for reference, I would like to share the specs on the TT.
Lenght 19'3" - Height 10'6" - Width 85" - UVW 2,884 lb. - GVWR 3,900 lb. - Hitch weight 400 lb. View attachment 7863

I'm towing a 2022 GeoPro 20 FBS, length 21.6ft, UVW 3400, GVWR 4400, and Tongue weight was 420 (I made mods to decrease tongue weight) now about 370.

I'm using the Hyundai OEM hitch and the KIA Telluride 7 way wire harness. Did not. use the brake controller harness, instead I'm using the Tekonsha Prodigy RF Brake Controller. I'm using a 12 in Drop (10 in rise) Drop Forged Aluminum Ball mount (lightweight and rated for 12,000 lbs).

I initially was using a 8.75 in rise steel ball mount, but it wasn't enough. The 10inch rise is much better. But I think I'm going to also get the Curt cushioned ball because it will add another 1.75 inch of rise.

I've been limiting my speed to no more than 68 mph; Hyundai owner's manual states to limit to less than 60mph and on uphills of 6% limit to 45mph. At 68 unless the wind is blowing I've had a very smooth ride with my current weight at about 3800lbs (some gear, no water). Since then I've changed my two deep cycle 100amp AGM batteries (64lbs ea) for a single 200amp LiFePO (53 lbs). In the process of moving the battery inside the front compartment so I will have room to add a second battery and also adding a second 190watt solar panel on top.

Just hooked up

After driving 180 miles; self leveling shocks decreased the amount of the initial forward pitch.

Close up of Aluminum Ball mount (10 inch rise)

 

[Akfan]

So based on my experience I would rather have the extra power regardless of how much weight is being dragged behind me. It seems that about 1/2 the tow rating is the sweet spot for most rigs in terms of pulling power, MPG and comfort. Sure you can tow near max but not for over extended distances.

Depends on the vehicle and the rating. A 21 F150 has 7 engine options, 3 cabs and 3 bed lengths. Plus 4wd.4 auto or 2wd. The tow rating can be from 5k lb up to 14k lb. In the same vehicle. Payload varies from 1100lb up to just over 3300 simply based on options. Our 3 newer Duramaxs get awful mileage empty. And the same mileage pulling a 20k lb Trackhoe. Right around 10MPG. Same for our 454 and our v10 Ford. Going from 12 to 10 isn't much loss compared to 50% in the Turbos.

Also a Turbo will suffer more MPG loss since you will be in boost most of the time pulling heavy. Our v8 trucks lose maybe 5 MPG when they are pulling. The 3.5 Turbos get half the mileage pulling that they do empty. We can take the ecoboost empty and get 23 highway. The v10 will get 12. But loaded the ecoboost will get 10 and the v10 will get 10 and be idling along. And before anyone gets upset its more fair than you think. The 3.5 TT has more HP and Torque than the v10 and the truck is far lighter. Even the lowly 2.7 is right there with the V10 on paper

The running joke from ecoboost owners was you can have the eco or you can have boost. You can't have both at the same time.

Since most use their half ton truck as a taxi and occasional garbage hauler the Ecoboost is great. For pulling the V8 is what most have gone back to in the excavating businesses that I work on vehicles for.

 

[ronyrod]

I'm towing a 2022 GeoPro 20 FBS, length 21.6ft, UVW 3400, GVWR 4400, and Tongue weight was 420 (I made mods to decrease tongue weight) now about 370.

I'm using the Hyundai OEM hitch and the KIA Telluride 7 way wire harness. Did not. use the brake controller harness, instead I'm using the Tekonsha Prodigy RF Brake Controller. I'm using a 12 in Drop (10 in rise) Drop Forged Aluminum Ball mount (lightweight and rated for 12,000 lbs).

I initially was using a 8.75 in rise steel ball mount, but it wasn't enough. The 10inch rise is much better. But I think I'm going to also get the Curt cushioned ball because it will add another 1.75 inch of rise.

I've been limiting my speed to no more than 68 mph; Hyundai owner's manual states to limit to less than 60mph and on uphills of 6% limit to 45mph. At 68 unless the wind is blowing I've had a very smooth ride with my current weight at about 3800lbs (some gear, no water). Since then I've changed my two deep cycle 100amp AGM batteries (64lbs ea) for a single 200amp LiFePO (53 lbs). In the process of moving the battery inside the front compartment so I will have room to add a second battery and also adding a second 190watt solar panel on top.

View attachment 9730
Just hooked up

View attachment 9727
After driving 180 miles; self leveling shocks decreased the amount of the initial forward pitch.

View attachment 9729
Close up of Aluminum Ball mount (10 inch rise)

I really like the Geo-Pro /E-Pro, but there were none available when I was looking for a trailer! One little thing that I want to point out, as you mentioned that you are decreasing the tongue weight by replacing items and moving things towards the back. If the back becomes too heavy, that could make your ride really uncomfortable, wobly; and you may need to explore the possibility of adding a sway control bar. @Skitals found an interesting ball mount with a high rise and an anti-sway attachment. In any case, you saw the RV I got, and the decision I made. I hope you can find a balance that will make you feel safe and happy. I couldn't. Best of luck!

 

[twinsemi]

I'm towing a 2022 GeoPro 20 FBS, length 21.6ft, UVW 3400, GVWR 4400, and Tongue weight was 420 (I made mods to decrease tongue weight) now about 370.

I'm using the Hyundai OEM hitch and the KIA Telluride 7 way wire harness. Did not. use the brake controller harness, instead I'm using the Tekonsha Prodigy RF Brake Controller. I'm using a 12 in Drop (10 in rise) Drop Forged Aluminum Ball mount (lightweight and rated for 12,000 lbs).

I initially was using a 8.75 in rise steel ball mount, but it wasn't enough. The 10inch rise is much better. But I think I'm going to also get the Curt cushioned ball because it will add another 1.75 inch of rise.

I've been limiting my speed to no more than 68 mph; Hyundai owner's manual states to limit to less than 60mph and on uphills of 6% limit to 45mph. At 68 unless the wind is blowing I've had a very smooth ride with my current weight at about 3800lbs (some gear, no water). Since then I've changed my two deep cycle 100amp AGM batteries (64lbs ea) for a single 200amp LiFePO (53 lbs). In the process of moving the battery inside the front compartment so I will have room to add a second battery and also adding a second 190watt solar panel on top.

View attachment 9730
Just hooked up

View attachment 9727
After driving 180 miles; self leveling shocks decreased the amount of the initial forward pitch.

View attachment 9729
Close up of Aluminum Ball mount (10 inch rise)

Nice to see your rig before and after letting the shocks do their thing. We have a Retro 179SE that is similar weight and size, but we haven't broken in the SC yet. I plan to use the WDH that I used to use on my 55 Chevy 3100. That little beast has a V8 with about the same torque as the SC, so I don't really expect any big surprises. The SC has a little more weight and wheelbase, so I expect it will be a little more composed on the road. But it also has a softer suspension, so whoknows? Otherwise, the list of advantages is as long as my arm.

Have you started another thread on SCF about your solar setup? The basics that you describe are very similar to our plans if we decide to get away from the big parks.

 

[jeffbot]

I saw a dealer in my area (Durham Region, Ontario, Canada) has a 7 pin tow wiring harness for the SC. I don't exactly need the wiring harness yet, more so the hitch so I can have extra tie down points. Does the wiring harness need to be installed when the hitch goes in? or is it something that can be added later without hassle?

 

[JMII]

Does the wiring harness need to be installed when the hitch goes in? or is it something that can be added later without hassle?

The offical instructions say wiring harness first, but those that have installed it say it doesn't matter, there is plenty of room to run the wires even with the hitch installed.

 

[pako]

I’m in Ontario Canada. Can you share which guru you used? Want to make sure I can get the hitch I want to buy strengthen if required so I can use WD. Thanks

Can Am RV Centre in London ON

 

[Santa Cruz Spartan]

Hi @Skitals , I promised that I will update on the MPG after the first trip my new towing vehicle.
As a reminder
The SC Limited, pulling my travel trailer (10’7” height x 7‘ width x 19‘ length and 3500lbs total weight) was doing around 9 MPG , an autonomy of about 150 miles.
The RAM 1500 (5.7L V8 and 3.92 axle ratio) Pulled the same trailer at 14 MPG, with an autonomy of 462 miles.
Side notes, same speed 55 /60 mph, same WDH (took me hours to re adjust it), no jerking, not even the feeling that I was towing.
As I said before, I still love the SC and we decided to keep it. Just not for towing travel trailers, at least not on that size/weight.
Never had a truck in our lives (I’m 54), now we have two! And I love them both! Not going back to cars anymore!
View attachment 9556
View attachment 9557

Makes sense, Its the same theory with most electronics and engines. If for example one Power supply is rated for 500w and the other is rated for 1000w. A 400w load will be much easier on a 1000w PSU even though both are rated to handle the load.

 

[BMCGC]

IMO, the SC is a compromise vehicle built to satisfy many needs. Car, truck, offroad.

The SC will do all those things, but not do any of them really well.

I would not tow a TT OTR with a SC. A utility trailer, small boat, pop-up camper are all in line with the SC's towing capabilities.

A TT with a large frontal wind resistance footprint and a weight near the SC towing capacity is not really what the SC was intended to do,

The 17gal fuel tank is also a big limiting factor, aftermarket may come up with a larger capacity tank if there is enough demand, but I doubt the demand is there.

 

[ronyrod]

IMO, the SC is a compromise vehicle built to satisfy many needs. Car, truck, offroad.

The SC will do all those things, but not do any of them really well.

I would not tow a TT OTR with a SC. A utility trailer, small boat, pop-up camper are all in line with the SC's towing capabilities.

A TT with a large frontal wind resistance footprint and a weight near the SC towing capacity is not really what the SC was intended to do,

The 17gal fuel tank is also a big limiting factor, aftermarket may come up with a larger capacity tank if there is enough demand, but I doubt the demand is there.

I agree completely. The SC : "A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one " That's why we decided to keep it, just not for towing the RV!

 

[SantaCruzFan]

Good description @ronyrod I think a SC is a brilliant compromise that can do many things very well and is the truck many of us really need, most of the time.

Unless you tow heavy trailers and then a half ton really is still required. That is why i bought my 5.7L Tundra and it tows beautifully.

But I don't need that much truck anymore and the SC hits all of my bases while looking super cool, and also being fun to drive. Now if they would just make more of them so that I could get the truck I want, without being abused by a tacky dealer, I would be ready right now.

Of course a hybrid SC or an N model would be nice too, so waiting isn't all bad. lol

 

[jeffbot]

Would it tow a hotdog cart, I’m semi-serious about making this a side hustle if it would work…

 

[BMCGC]

Would it tow a hotdog cart, I’m semi-serious about making this a side hustle if it would work…

If you enjoy reading, A Confederacy of Dunces is a must read. It follows the life of sometimes hotdog vendor Ignatius Jacques Reilly.

 

[Speidz]

Just jumping in to share my first towing trip.

SEL AWD, no activity package.

Curt Hitch, Kia 7 Pin

Towed a pop-up with an empty weight around 1900lbs, 2 adults, 1 toddler, 1 baby. Not a ton in the pop-up, maybe an extra 200lbs. Probably another 200lbs in the bed of the truck. I averaged 18.5mpg on a 240 mile round trip.

I found it had adequate power on the hills. The pop-up has trailer brakes that I have working with my brake controller, the Primus IQ(I think). It was set fairly low and I felt confident stopping at all times.

Cruising at 75mph on the interstate was fine. Pushing 80mph felt a little more stressful but I am a novice at towing.

Overall, 10/10 experience and I'm confident going anywhere in the hilly Midwest.

 

[Skitals]

If anyone is having a hard time between choosing a 4-pin or 7-way harness because you mostly need 4-pin, here is a great secondary use for the 7-way. It gives you unswitched 12v power at the back of the vehicle. Unlike the inverter in the bed the engine doesn't need to be running. I picked up a Reese #78119 7-way to 4/5-way + 12v socket + LED tester for $15.99 at my local West Marine. I'm using the Curt #56466 7-way plug&play harness with the OEM hitch.

 

[md_cruz]

I'm towing a 2022 GeoPro 20 FBS, length 21.6ft, UVW 3400, GVWR 4400, and Tongue weight was 420 (I made mods to decrease tongue weight) now about 370.

I'm using the Hyundai OEM hitch and the KIA Telluride 7 way wire harness. Did not. use the brake controller harness, instead I'm using the Tekonsha Prodigy RF Brake Controller. I'm using a 12 in Drop (10 in rise) Drop Forged Aluminum Ball mount (lightweight and rated for 12,000 lbs).

I initially was using a 8.75 in rise steel ball mount, but it wasn't enough. The 10inch rise is much better. But I think I'm going to also get the Curt cushioned ball because it will add another 1.75 inch of rise.

I've been limiting my speed to no more than 68 mph; Hyundai owner's manual states to limit to less than 60mph and on uphills of 6% limit to 45mph. At 68 unless the wind is blowing I've had a very smooth ride with my current weight at about 3800lbs (some gear, no water). Since then I've changed my two deep cycle 100amp AGM batteries (64lbs ea) for a single 200amp LiFePO (53 lbs). In the process of moving the battery inside the front compartment so I will have room to add a second battery and also adding a second 190watt solar panel on top.

View attachment 9730
Just hooked up

View attachment 9727
After driving 180 miles; self leveling shocks decreased the amount of the initial forward pitch.

View attachment 9729
Close up of Aluminum Ball mount (10 inch rise)

Good setup, I have it in mind to put two airlift 1000 bags in the back springs, stiffened up just under firming the springs up without any weight. Self leveling shocks are one thing but to me it makes sense

 

[JMII]

If anyone is having a hard time between choosing a 4-pin or 7-way harness because you mostly need 4-pin, here is a great secondary use for the 7-way. It gives you unswitched 12v power at the back of the vehicle. Unlike the inverter in the bed the engine doesn't need to be running. I picked up a Reese #78119 7-way to 4/5-way + 12v socket + LED tester for $15.99 at my local West Marine. I'm using the Curt #56466 7-way plug&play harness with the OEM hitch.

Great idea. I tell people to get the 7 pin just to future proof yourself - this way you can always hook up to anything you might encounter. Then you just need to carry a 4-to-7 pin adapter like THIS for trailers that don't have brakes.

 

[motrcycl]

FINALLY! I have the Kia 7-Pin Harness and the REDARC Tow Pro Elite Brake Controller Installed! I don't have anything to tow yet but I have a 7-pin tester and before the brake controller everything worked except the brake signal; now everything works including the brake signal. Took way too much time and I learned alot along the way:

1. Don't pay for hyundaitechinfo.com access if your looking for wiring diagrams/details on the towing connector/brake controller stuff. They are incorrect and only show the info for the non-turbo version (Hyundai did refund my subscription cost though).
2. The Kia 7-Pin Kit is plug-and-play to the 12-pin towing harness under the rear of the truck on the driver's side
3. The Turbo equipped SC have 2 extra trailer-related fuses and a 4-pin connector under the dash (up behind the fuse panel) for hardwiring a trailer brake controller
4. Be warned, if you go with a brake controller that has a box you have to store under the dash somewhere (IE the REDARC ones) there is not any great places to really mount/secure it. Something like a prodigy brake controller mounted on the outside of fuse box cover would be alot easier to install
4. Really really really don't mess with the panel/garnish right below the panel with the start/stop button. It looks like its just small piece right there but it actually runs all the way under the center screen/media system and around the glovebox and if you had to replace it you would have to take out the center console and just about all of the dash panels (and the glove box).

Now for some pictures!

- The Kia 7-Pin kit came with an adapter for the 4-pin under the dash to unterminated wires. The redarc brake controller came with an adapter from the controller to unterminated wires. The color coding between them matched up so I just used some butt connectors and covered them in electrical tape.

View attachment 3510 View attachment 3511

- Connected the cabling to the 4-pin behind the fuse panel and then had to find a place for the controller module to sit. Big thing is it has to be fixed and cannot move around. Ended up gorilla taping it to the AC duct in under the center console and added some velcro straps (added after pictures) to make sure it doesn't move:

View attachment 3513 View attachment 3514

- Mounted the knob for the controller on the right of the steering wheel. The panel this is in is the one you really don't want to take out or replace. Could have saved hours if I had put the knob somewhere else:

View attachment 3516

 

[motrcycl]

I finally located, what I believe is the elusive 4-pin factory brake controller plug behind the fuse block. The plug has a blue, red, black and yellow wire. Question: what function does the yellow wire serve? I have the Curt 56466 7-pin wiring harness for the rear hookup. I don't want to wire a brake controller (typically blue, red, black and white wiring) without knowing the yellow factory wire function.

 

[monogodo]

Spent a little time this morning calling around for pricing on getting a hitch installed.

Local shop #1 quoted $568.31 total
Local shop #2 quoted $589 total
Dealership quoted $1139 total
Uhaul quoted $479.17 total

I had a Uhaul hitch on my '88 Isuzu P'up that worked flawlessly, so I'm comfortable with going that route.

The only downside is it is a 4-pin connector. I'm thinking that it'd be easy enough for me to swap out the 4-pin for the Kia 7-pin at a later date, if necessary.

I could probably install the hitch myself, too, but would rather have Uhaul do it, since I don't have the necessary tools.