Sounds like you're about to buy a classic car

 

Back in the day I had several cars that would become classic years later. The one that I miss, and talk about most, was a 1968 Camaro. Unfortunately, now retired I no longer have the financial resources to recapture that dream.

Gusto!

 

Yeah it does bother me that there are a lot of things in these vehicles we simply can't repair on our own anymore. Losing slightly more freedoms every year...

It's one reason I opted for a V-Star 250 for my motorcycle option. Such a simple basic bike that anyone can do their own work to. I need at least one of my vehicles to be something I can take care of 100% myself.

"You will own nothing and be happy" looming on our horizon.

 

Back in the day spark plugs had to be checked/gaped at 7,500 miles and replaced at 15,000 - now they go 100k
Back in the day I had to set the points and timing every time I checked the plugs. Cap and rotor had to be replaced at 15,000 - now NEVER (don't exist)
Back in the day oil had to be changed every 2-3,000 miles - now you can go over 7,000
Back in the day tires lasted 25,000 miles and so did the ineffective brakes - now over 60,000
Back in the day you had to warm-up the engine otherwise it would stall every few feet - now just start and go
Back in the day on a cold or wet morning, your car may not even start.
Back in the day cars didn't air conditioning, an effective heating system, power anything, seat belts
Back in the day cars handles horribly, had poor brakes and were deadly in a crash

I miss nothing about the old cars and motorcycles. They were **** then, and they still are. Modern machines are better in every conceivable way.

 

Back in the day spark plugs had to be checked/gaped at 7,500 miles and replaced at 15,000 - now they go 100k
Back in the day I had to set the points and timing every time I checked the plugs. Cap and rotor had to be replaced at 15,000 - now NEVER (don't exist)
Back in the day oil had to be changed every 2-3,000 miles - now you can go over 7,000
Back in the day tires lasted 25,000 miles and so did the ineffective brakes - now over 60,000
Back in the day you had to warm-up the engine otherwise it would stall every few feet - now just start and go
Back in the day on a cold or wet morning, your car may not even start.
Back in the day cars didn't air conditioning, an effective heating system, power anything, seat belts
Back in the day cars handles horribly, had poor brakes and were deadly in a crash

I miss nothing about the old cars and motorcycles. They were **** then, and they still are. Modern machines are better in every conceivable way.

I think no one misses the less reliability of the old stuff, just the fact that we no longer have the freedom to do a lot of the work to our own vehicles ourselves anymore.

 

@Gary in NJ - Wow! Way to take the wind out of my sails. Thanks for bursting my old delusional ways…….

Sure, open your wallet and let new technology take everything you have.

But I still long for simpler times.

Gusto!!

 

I miss the "Duck and Cover" drills, knowing Soviet ICBMs might be landing on our heads anytime soon...

 

I don't think active shooter drills are any better 😅

 

Happy belated birthday!!

 

Growing up i heard this all the time. When I started building cars it was fox mustangs and camaro and such. Then subaru and newer ones. The cars people say "can't be worked on" are far easier to work on. Not always faster to work on, but easier and less likely to need it.

Then the old guys got enough money to buy their dream cars off their youth (60s and 70s).... and bring them to me to fix. Most greatly exaggerated their "kept it running with a matchbook and paper clip" abilities. They forget the entire room full of oscilloscope and dwell meters and hiking up plug wire and such to get readings. In reality that's why cars were scraped at 100k miles back then. Nobody would fix them

The real *******s to work on are the mid 70s to 94 ish. Not up to obd2 protocol so you can't use an autel and watch all the data, but not back into points and 2 barrel. Those are stuck in automotive **** where you have to backprobe this while jumping these 6 wires with an analog meter.... anything duraspark, magnum, or gm throttle body (or tune port). Early 90s coil pack cars etc. Those suck. They had a computer.... but such a sorry one you couldn't communicate with it. Lol. Watch the light on the dash flash to find the code.... lol.


I own mostly pre 1980 vehicles and I've built many from ground up.....id rather work on 2000 and up anyday...allday

 

Growing up i heard this all the time. When I started building cars it was fox mustangs and camaro and such. Then subaru and newer ones. The cars people say "can't be worked on" are far easier to work on. Not always faster to work on, but easier and less likely to need it.

Then the old guys got enough money to buy their dream cars off their youth (60s and 70s).... and bring them to me to fix. Most greatly exaggerated their "kept it running with a matchbook and paper clip" abilities. They forget the entire room full of oscilloscope and dwell meters and hiking up plug wire and such to get readings. In reality that's why cars were scraped at 100k miles back then. Nobody would fix them

The real ****s to work on are the mid 70s to 94 ish. Not up to obd2 protocol so you can't use an autel and watch all the data, but not back into points and 2 barrel. Those are stuck in automotive * where you have to backprobe this while jumping these 6 wires with an analog meter.... anything duraspark, magnum, or gm throttle body (or tune port). Early 90s coil pack cars etc. Those suck. They had a computer.... but such a sorry one you couldn't communicate with it. Lol. Watch the light on the dash flash to find the code.... lol.


I own mostly pre 1980 vehicles and I've built many from ground up.....id rather work on 2000 and up anyday...allday

Haha my little brother was a mechanic at GM dealership that sold all brands except Caddy.in the 80’s. The car he hated to work on was the first Vette’s that had the digital dash’s. Someone brought one in with any control or gauge issues the dash went to the trash and a new one went in if it was under warranty.

 

The good old days of highly polluting automobiles - both in emissions and in oil leaks.

 

The Cruz isn't exactly an economy car when it comes to mpg.... its actually pretty poor in today's mpg charts

 

Nothing helps pollution like buying a new car and sending your old one to the land fill 😂😂😂

 

I liked your posting!

Since I was never graciously skilled with mechanical wizardry... that did not stop me...in previous years I have attempted many repairs to appliances in the home; and as I think of it now - some of my cars I owned in the 70's, 80's and 90's... once we got into the 2000's - I was making a decent enough income to let the mechanics "get er done"!

My brother used to laugh and joke, at times, I could "screw up a 1 car funeral procession"... sometimes true, most times I was quite "fulfilled" in my accomplishment of a repair!

 

I liked your posting!

Since I was never graciously skilled with mechanical wizardry... that did not stop me...in previous years I have attempted many repairs to appliances in the home; and as I think of it now - some of my cars I owned in the 70's, 80's and 90's... once we got into the 2000's - I was making a decent enough income to let the mechanics "get er done"!

My brother used to laugh and joke, at times, I could "screw up a 1 car funeral procession"... sometimes true, most times I was quite "fulfilled" in my accomplishment of a repair!

I have a good management job. Having worked my way up through from production to automation programming and industrial robotics specialist. But I was wrenching on things for fun as a kid. Broken saws and mowers and motorcycle people would give me. Vacuum and radio/TV as well. Very rarely did things ever work after I touched them though. Lol. Eventually I got some success in my late teens with a few repairs. After going into the work force in the early 2000s I kept wrenching as a hobby (and a way to afford to race bikes and cars....broken ones are affordable, good ones werent) and my hobby became a side income. Now I restore and build a few and maintain several at my shop, even have employees working there while im at my real job.


And a lot of the "GOOD OLD DAYS" of classics weren't all that great either. Plenty of the old cars had parts that you simply couldn't get to, just like current ones do. The old big block mustangs come to mind. Any of the 70s and 80s vans with the motor halfway under the firewall were awful as well. Very rarely did anyone have working rear drum brakes. They are most often not adjusted and never hit the drum and about half the time the parking assembly and equalizer are gone altogether. Early fuel injection, GM TPi, Bosch systems, early computer controlled ignition all sucked and died for no reason. Duraspark 1 was awful, duraspark 2 was probably worse....

I started working on the 80s and 90s mustang and camaro/trans-am. That's what I learned on. (And they are still in automotive purgatory where they had enough computers to piss off old guys but too old to have interface for the new guys) And thats how I got where I was going when the wife was in college. Once she got her degree we bought new vehicles and have kept at least 2 since. As hers wore out we kept them running for errands or gave them away. so I learned how to work on those. Tpi, mpfi, sfi gdi, turbo. I work on several diesel but that's one area I need improvement on. Then I got a few classics and restored and worked on those. People started bringing me ATV, boat, Tractor and everything else. Small engines (I hate small 2 cycle.... no room for anything).

Assuming I can get parts (decent parts) I have no fear of any vehicle. Ive pulled hundreds of engines, the oldest from the 50s trucks to the newest one ive pulled was a 2018 STI.

They are still the exact same principle. Before you had no way of knowing why or what the engine was doing. Now you have 1000 parameters and sensors to tell you (assuming the sensor don't lie, you have to watch that) if I wanted to know what my 66 big blocks AFr was I'd have to hook my air fuel meter up, one on each exhaust. Then I'd have to pull the choke and let it warm. Then I'd have to datalog at every rpm AND at each stage in the carb process. Adjust the metering rods. Then the step springs, the accelerator pump or power valve etc etc. On a new one I simply plug into the obd2 port and watch the AFR lambda for bank one and bank 2..... if one needs adjusted I do so simply in the afr table but the computer will do it all for me so it won't

If I think there is a timing issues on that "good old" car I have to pull all 8 plug wires. Wire in an oscilloscope (historically a machine the size of a tire changer) i have to measure the dwell and timing, with a timing light and dwell meter. I have to disable the vacuum advance and verify the cap and rotor are OK and the hold down is tight. Then I can start it. Assuming base timing is ok I can then rev the engine slowly to see how fast my mechanical advance is coming in and adjust that with weights and springs....then I can determine if I need my vacuum advance to ported or to manifold vacuum and hook that up and see how much vacuum advance I have and add up all the advance. If I need to adjust the total I have to weld up the advance plate by removing the distributor and disassembling it to remove the massive advance that early emissions police mandated.

On the new one I can simply plug into the obd2 port and go to the ecm/pcm and view live data and see what timing is doing and if I don't like it, change it with a laptop on a table.

I have at least a little bit of knowledge on the two and I'd rather work on the new one anyway. More specifically id say in order

Most cars from 2000-now
Most cars from 79 and before
Most cars from 80-2000
Anything German (and most italian) from 80-now. Lol.

People claim the new ones will absolutely make you mad because of placement but some have always been that way. Someone comes in needing a starter and on most cars its a 40 minute job. On a Toyota truck its a BIG job under the intake. Same for a Northstar. Some like the Honda 2.4 its a real pain because of the fwd and exhaust manifold. Some like the old 2.8 GM it was A pia because once unbolted you had to jack the motor up to remove it. Even the later 4.3 4x4 s10 was a pia to get the starter on. I remember a Pontiac starfire I cussed the started on for a whole day. I don't even remember the issue but I remember I said I'd never do another one. Never even saw another one. Lol. You can change the injectors and plugs in a Ford v8 in 30 minutes. Its a day on some Toyota to get to just 3 of them.

So yeah some new things (ANY heater core after about 1980) will be a huge disaster when they didn't have to be so bad but that's been the case on vehicles for as long as there have been vehicles. "Great ideas" like reverse threaded lug nuts on one side of the vehicle (thanks Mopar) and oil filled alternator mounts (thanks BMW/VW) have always been the case.

But its case by case/ model by model. Not really decade by decade.

 

@Akfan - excellent write ups above. Thanks for sharing!

Gusto!

 

In my mid 60's I can certainly relate. Grew up buying things used and repairing them, because we couldn't afford to buy new. Father taught me to rebuild motocycle topends on our race bikes in my pre and early teens. Moved onto to my first car at 14 years old (without a drivers license). It was a 1932 chopped and channeled Ford Pickup with a 400 Olds engine. My father and I worked on it together for a bit, but never finished it. At 16 I bought a 1968 VW Bug and was off and running repairing and maintaining a variety of vehicles used ever since. Anything about pre-1975 is fixablle with pretty much basic skills and here in California those older vehicles keep the smog monkey off your back.

I recomend keeping something like this around to scratch that itch.

1968 International Travelall 4X4 therapy vehicle! 😂🤠

 

In my mid 60's I can certainly relate. Grew up buying things used and repairing them, because we couldn't afford to buy new. Father taught me to rebuild motocycle topends on our race bikes in my pre and early teens. Moved onto to my first car at 14 years old (without a drivers license). It was a 1932 chopped and channeled Ford Pickup with a 400 Olds engine. My father and I worked on it together for a bit, but never finished it. At 16 I bought a 1968 VW Bug and was off and running repairing and maintaining a variety of vehicles used ever since. Anything about pre-1975 is fixablle with pretty much basic skills and here in California those older vehicles keep the smog monkey off your back.

I recomend keeping something like this around to scratch that itch.
View attachment 22780
1968 International Travelall 4X4 therapy vehicle! 😂🤠

Like I said about that era though, we largely use the same stuff today. 60s and above. Even driving them is really similar. Sure the choke may need pulled and the dimmer may be in the floor. You may even have to kick your tire to see if it's low...

But get back into the teens-40s it gets rough. Foot clutch bikes with with carbs you had to prime, side valves, compression release etc etc. The Norton, the ace, the brough etc. You needed 4 hands to ride. You have to hope you don't need to stop and take off.

And the cars prior to the 50s OHV fords confuse me too. They are more simple they say.... you just have to do this and this and that. But in the end they people saying how simple they are fail to get then running. Otherwise they would still be driving them. We pull the flathead L block out of the old fords for more than one reason. Lol.

By the 50s and 60s you had the Ford Y block and Fe blocks, you had the GM small block, and the LA Mopar block. Ford had their over head cam v8 in the mid 60s. Gm and Mopar shied away. Even up to today GM and Mopar still cling to cam in block v8s, although both have made several ohc. Ford didn't make many cam in block from the death of the 302 (mid 90s) right up until the new 7.3 godzilla. Was a shock that Ford had a newly designed cam in block engine. Since then we basically use the same things with varying levels of add ons that make them more efficient and reliable. The 60s generally had a manual choke. Really one hot wire to the coil condenser and a ground to the block from the battery was about it. The hot going to the starter and one signal wire from the switch to the solenoid on the fender. The only emissions controls in the early 60s was inclusion of positive crankcase ventilation but emissions controls were being worked on in the 50s. The "old guys" knew that we were polluting and the government was already setting dates by which we had to be down to certain levels. By the late 60s we had smog pump/ air injections. Diverter valves to stop exhaust from getting into the pumps. Exhaust gas was used to get engines up to temp by the 60s. Fords thermactor valves and such....with all that we had to kill power by retarding timing to stop knock. Including knock sensors in the 60s and 70s added more wiring. Points went away around 70 and we got vacuum advance ignition for economy at cruze speed. In cars cams got shaved and power plummeted.....more. by late 70s even on trucks and we had computer controlled ignition Hei or duraspark or whatever system your company used....that added a good deal more wiring and a computer/ module. The same engines that had 400 HP in 66-69 had under 200 HP in 79.....same engine, different cam/carb/compression. Fuel mileage was terrible too in those choked out engine. By the 80s we were using MAP or MAF sensor to meter fuel amd throttle body or port fuel injection and and an o² sensor to check catalytic converter efficiency. Early ones didn't vary fuel based on the afr, just the manifold pressure sensor and temp sensors.... but still more wires. And by 90s we were using integrated controls and the man mandated all vehicles work on the same obd2 protocols (best thing they ever did).

Its funny riding in the old ones too. And between my own and my buddies ive ridden in and can go jump in most anything. Early 70s 455 trans am, 71 mach one, the aforementioned 340-6 Cuda, 454 chevelle.... you feel like you have gobs of power and tromping down give you wheel spinning tq and throws you back in the seat (mostly because the suspension sucks). But go to the 1/4 and they just don't impress. Any car in the 13s was "fast" at the time and thats a v6 camry now (no hemi broke 13s. Only 3 muscle cars ever tested under 13.0 ...one year Shelby cobra, a 66 427 vette and a 69 road runner 440) , Most fell in the high 14s and 15s with any engine people actually could afford. The 426/428/454/455/427/429 cars that nobody actually ordered were all low to high 13s though....usually even those had to be ordered with track packs and the lowest rear gear to get that . But most that were actually made were 14s-15s in the real world .and that's a current Toyota highlander now (mid 14s) That's not opinion or hearsay. Its verifiable fact. Lol. So yes....Steve McQueens 68 bullit 390 mustang would almost certainly lose to a highlander today. Burt Reynolds black trans-am would lose to the same highlander by a full second. The Duke Boys charger would have lost to the camry with the best optioned hemi which it didn't have. And thats all straight line....which was the strong suit of those cars. (Well I suppose the ability to take flight and heal after landing was the strong suit of those cars)

 

Ain't lying. I have a stock pile of K-Jet computers, and an extra one in each Volvo for when they decide to shiet the bed and leave me stranded.
They're in a big box mixed in with Chrysler EZKs and fuel pump relays.

 

Ain't lying. I have a stock pile of K-Jet computers, and an extra one in each Volvo for when they decide to shiet the bed and leave me stranded.
They're in a big box mixed in with Chrysler EZKs and fuel pump relays.

Most never even got to die fully before being take to the woodshed. Between accumulaters, pressure valves, leaking injectors and the controller most would either start good cold or start good hot.... but only a rare few would start in both conditions. Lol. And K jet is AFTER some other worse "jets" lol

Add in a draw through turbo and a metering valve and most say "nope" when you start having trouble they just pull it all and upgrade.

But it WAS better than a carb when it worked. It did adjust fuel based on manifold pressure and different temp sensors. As far as stand alone and non o² systems jetronic was better than 4 or 6 small carbs trying to get them all on the same page (or even in the same book). You were at the mercy of several sensors that were in their infancy and an analog ecu too.

 

God forbid they then sit for a few years in the woodshed. Final nails in the coffin. Resuscitating a jetronic system that hasn't ran well in years is nearly impossible.
to the crusher they go

 

And it never fails that it didn't just sit in a shed. They removed the hood/trunk and maybe even the dang plenum and THEN let it sit for few years. Lol.

After cutting and wiring in a few sensors that were "close enough"

 

In a weird way when I went and purchased a 2015 C7 Corvette it represented a “simpler day”. I had it specked out and built exactly the way I wanted. Options and color were all based upon the dealership’s stock of about 12 new Vettes on their lot. I was able to see all available choices. Ordered my new ride and waited about two months for it to show up.

I put over 1/2 down and enjoyed it for a little over two years. But, knowing the future cost of repairs (a set of 4 new tires was going to cost around $2K) and maintenance was heading my way. At the time of purchase I put those future expenses out of my mind.

A couple of years in we decided to buy over retirement home. I sold the Vette and used those funds for down payment and closing costs. My wife felt bad about me selling my dream car. Truth be told, I was relieved once I sold it. I drove it hard but was able to sell before all those massive costs were inflicted on me. Phew!

So, maybe “simpler days” can exist here and now if you plan carefully. I enjoy my SC that I have the title in my grubby hands. I’m left with a trunk full of memories of days gone by. That C7 was a friggin’ rocket!

Gusto!

 

I own two of those simple cars, 65 and 67 Mustang. They are constant maintenance. I open the hood of the Santa Cruz every couple weeks for a looksee. I like technology.

 

In a weird way when I went and purchased a 2015 C7 Corvette it represented a “simpler day”. I had it specked out and built exactly the way I wanted. Options and color were all based upon the dealership’s stock of about 12 new Vettes on their lot. I was able to see all available choices. Ordered my new ride and waited about two months for it to show up.

I put over 1/2 down and enjoyed it for a little over two years. But, knowing the future cost of repairs (a set of 4 new tires was going to cost around $2K) and maintenance was heading my way. At the time of purchase I put those future expenses out of my mind.

A couple of years in we decided to buy over retirement home. I sold the Vette and used those funds for down payment and closing costs. My wife felt bad about me selling my dream car. Truth be told, I was relieved once I sold it. I drove it hard but was able to sell before all those massive costs were inflicted on me. Phew!

So, maybe “simpler days” can exist here and now if you plan carefully. I enjoy my SC that I have the title in my grubby hands. I’m left with a trunk full of memories of days gone by. That C7 was a friggin’ rocket!

Gusto!

The c7 was the last one that wasn't "all that" expensive to maintain. At least some parts carry over to other models. Same for the Ford gt.

I own two of those simple cars, 65 and 67 Mustang. They are constant maintenance. I open the hood of the Santa Cruz every couple weeks for a looksee. I like technology.

Yep. And the parts we get are trash now. I'll pay 10x for new old stock if I can get it.

 

The c7 was the last one that wasn't "all that" expensive to maintain. At least some parts carry over to other models.

And at least you can access the greasy bits. I took one look at my brother's Boxster / Cayman and said no way. What is expensive on my C7 Z51 are the mag-ride shocks but they are magically and totally worth the extra money. I guess getting to the clutch isn't that easy due to the torque tube / trans-axle set up but everything else is very straight foward.

The biggest problem with the new tech is getting parts programmed. For example my wife's Infiniti currently has a transmission error. I know the fix and can get the part but I keep getting different stories regarding programming the replacement unit. In a few years the software, knowledge and tools to do such work will be gone. This is 2014 vehicle so we are talking Windows 8, so someone needs to keep a relic laptop around for this kind of task.

 

I totally understand

 

Never buy a Porche with a salvage title!

 

Never buy a Porche with a salvage title!

 

You can do pretty pretty good just using hopes and dreams, a come-along, the neighbors tree, and a picture of what you wished it still looked like.

 

10# sledge and acetylene torch come in handy too!

 

The middle ground between Carol Shelby and the 17yo at Meineke. That's an okay place to be if you ask me 😂

 

If you watch the multimillion dollar race teams in person they use a frame machine in the shops that costs millions but its basically a masonry string setup. In the pits they use broom sticks and strings Not like the hub mounted setup you see at local places. Ive seen F1 cars re aligned with a stick and some fuel jugs to hold the sticks and strings. Lol.

Ultimately all those are just broom sticks and strings and some measuring. Tow and camber take minutes. Caster takes measurements at full lock both ways and at neutral. Setting caster sucks. But then 99% of shops only set toe and camber as best they can and if caster is wrong they tell you something is bent. Lol

Like I said....good ones can do better with broomstick and string than a bad one with a big hunter digital. Lol.

I've used alignment plates and cheap turntables on my own cars for years. Seen some pretty high end teams use them too. Lol. But I don't fool with offering alignment at my shop and never have. I send them to some of the locals. Too many comebacks. First pot hole they hit and then tires wear funny they blame the shops.

 

Merlin says It's the wizard not the wand!

 

Invoice reads $6025.00:
broom sticks and builders line $25.00
Knowing how to use the Line and Sticks $6,000.00

 

Reading the ruler/tape is the tricky part. Lol

 

When I was in high school in the early eighties, I picked up a blue 1967 Shelby Mustang fastback for $1500. Man, do I ever miss that car!! And not just because of what they go for now.

 

I had a buddy with a 65 289 car for his first car in the late 90s. Sold it to buy a "good" car for 800 dollars.

Was far from "nice" but was a very solid machine