[danco]

If the manual doesn't include anything about this prior to say 30K miles (just throwing a number out) and someone has an issue with clogged fuel injectors, prior to 30K miles, then I would think this would fall under warranty?

Is this what you're looking for?

 

[Bigness]

What I am curious about is this:

If the manual doesn't include anything about this prior to say 30K miles (just throwing a number out) and someone has an issue with clogged fuel injectors, prior to 30K miles, then I would think this would fall under warranty? Granted it is a big inconvenience if I can just add a bottle of additive at every oil change.

But if I follow the published service guidelines, and something breaks that is not "wear and tear" (like brake pads), then I would expect a warranty repair - otherwise, put the maintenance requirement in the manual.

It would be covered under warranty - several threads show the pain people are going through with clogged injectors. For the few dollars it costs to do preventative maintenance with the cleaners, it beats having to deal with months of issues

 

[Gary in NJ]

How often should you do a fuel induction service?

Have you not owned a fuel injected car before? The answer to this question is "do what you have always done". If you like to dump stuff in your tank...then keep doing it. I have driven many cars beyond 200k miles and have never once used a fuel additive.

 

[JMII]

They love to have a service bay filled with oil changes. You never see a shop that only does fuel pumps or only does steering racks..... yet you have entire service chains that do "only oil changes". You make a lot on them. They all mark up the oil 50%, charge for half an hour even though they do 5 minute changes, and there is very little liability or "comebacks" with oil changes. You don't have rusted up bolts to torch. You don't have stuck parts.... nothing.

But for the "free" oil change the dealer is getting reimbursed by the OEM at a fixed rate, not their normal profit margin. Now if your getting an out-of-pocket oil change sure the dealer loves that easy work since they can turn-n-burn that kind of work with the most junior tech.

 

[Bigness]

How often should you do a fuel induction service?

Have you not owned a fuel injected car before? The answer to this question is "do what you have always done". If you like to dump stuff in your tank...then keep doing it. I have driven many cars beyond 200k miles and have never once used a fuel additive.

GDI engines are different than just FI engines.

 

[Alphabeta]

Is this what you're looking for?

View attachment 22217

I missed that, thanks! Though, that one would be hard to measure as anyone can say "I always use top tier" - but I certainly find it easier to avoid a service issue for one bottle of cleaner every oil change.

 

[hligo11]

I have always used top-tier gas in all of my vehicles and will continue to do so based upon the requirements that were highlighted above

 

[fx1mark]

While your statement is very correct, and the additives in a Top Tier gas will keep it cleaner overall, if a quickie mart is advertising gas a half dollar cheaper than the Shell across the street, the rare minority are going to Shell, and Hyundai is at least pointing out what is necessary, if it's only used as an emergency deterrent.

I have a Shell gas card with 10 cents a gallon off. I find the cheapest shell gas near me with google maps and fill up there.

 

[Akfan]

But for the "free" oil change the dealer is getting reimbursed by the OEM at a fixed rate, not their normal profit margin. Now if your getting an out-of-pocket oil change sure the dealer loves that easy work since they can turn-n-burn that kind of work with the most junior tech.

But they also charge the entire price of the oil for a synthetic upgrade. So they get the flat rate from hyundai, plus they get paid by the customer on those. They charge 30 minutes at 125-175 an hour and pay the lube tech 15 bucks.....they love oil changes.

GDI engines are different than just FI engines.

But these have both port and direct. Most (if not all) do now.

And the failure on GDI was never the injectors themselves. It was coked valves. You will not get that with the port/wash injection these have. Several cars have had fuel injector troubles. Bad design or bad vendors....who knows. The old 3400 toyota and the LB7 duramax were notorious for injector trouble. That could the case with the early Theta 3 we gave. Or it could be a bad batch. Who knows.

I've read of the port injectors failing as well. But it does seem to be more with the direct. Too early to tell.

As far as the injectors themselves....direct has been common for years. Forever in diesel ( before 1900) and on gas cars since the 80s mainstream and 50s on BMW and Mercedes. Nothing new or baffling about it

Ford and AMC both had gdi in the 70s but it was too expensive. Ford also had dohc v8s back then but again....costed too much to sell.

None of the crap we see today is new or great engineering. Its just cheaper to manufacture today than it was when the "real engineers" came up with it.

 

[bender1227]

So if I'm following this correctly since the Santa Cruz has both a Direct and Multi port injection method all you need to use is top tier gas and possibly the additive you put in your gas. You do not need to use the one where you spray it into the intake valves?

 

[Akfan]

So if I'm following this correctly since the Santa Cruz has both a Direct and Multi port injection method all you need to use is top tier gas and possibly the additive you put in your gas. You do not need to use the one where you spray it into the intake valves?

Yes the Cruz, the Toyota, the Fords... all have old school port (manifold) injectors to wash the valves. They do this because a few companies (European cars) pushed gdi without it and the valves got dirty. It was a big issue... and not if but when. It became an issue with high compression/ turbo/ heat. In the old 50s-90s engines it wasn't such an issue. In diesel the intake doesn't run under vacuum all the time so it wasn't an issue in those either for the past 130 years.

Cleaning anything won't hurt most likely. Usually is a good thing. But If your injector fails and Hyundai knows you was spraying stuff into the intake track..... will they even warranty your car or will they say you blew trash into the combustion chamber and ruined your injector?? Who knows..... not I. I do know that when doing intake manifold injection.... you do smoke which means you ware in fact blowing crap into the combustion chamber. Even on cars that were not all that dirty, well before GDI. Thats not debatable.

But yes all gas direct injected (gdi) cars that I'm aware of have port injection to clean the valves now. The Cruz does.

 

[danco]

So if I'm following this correctly since the Santa Cruz has both a Direct and Multi port injection method all you need to use is top tier gas and possibly the additive you put in your gas. You do not need to use the one where you spray it into the intake valves?

That’s correct.
My plan is to run a bottle of Techron through after every oil change, and see what happens… 🙂

 

[Gary in NJ]

GDI engines are different than just FI engines.

The fuel injector itself has no idea where it is mounted and how it is used. It is simply a high pressure solenoid valve. That's it...not special.

Also, know that the engine has both port and direct injectors - and both are kept clean and working with high quality fuel.

I'm shocked at how people on this forum over think everything.

 

[Bigness]

The fuel injector itself has no idea where it is mounted and how it is used. It is simply a high pressure solenoid valve. That's it...not special.

Also, know that the engine has both port and direct injectors - and both are kept clean and working with high quality fuel.

I'm shocked at how people on this forum over think everything.

I'm pretty sure that's not how GDI engines/injectors work. The GDI injects fuel directly into the combustion chamber so no fuel passes over the intake valves to keep them clean. So, no they aren't kept clean with just the fuel or additives. You need to use a GDI Intake cleaner to get to the intake valves. I'm shocked at how people...oh, never mind.

 

[Akfan]

The fuel injector itself has no idea where it is mounted and how it is used. It is simply a high pressure solenoid valve. That's it...not special.

Also, know that the engine has both port and direct injectors - and both are kept clean and working with high quality fuel.

I'm shocked at how people on this forum over think everything.

Its a good deal higher pressure though. 30-50 psi for port and 2000 psi for direct. Still nothing special since diesel have been running 30k psi direct injectors for years. Lol. Direct injection has been used off/on and on different formats as long as any injection. Again. 50s Mercedes used direct injecting when we used carbs in the 80s. Lol. Gdi has been used since the 1910s.

 

[Akfan]

I'm pretty sure that's not how GDI engines/injectors work. The GDI injects fuel directly into the combustion chamber so no fuel passes over the intake valves to keep them clean. So, no they aren't kept clean with just the fuel or additives. You need to use a GDI Intake cleaner to get to the intake valves. I'm shocked at how people...oh, never mind.

But again......in the Cruz. Inthe Toyota d4-s.....in the fords..... THEY DO HAVE port injectors as well. They do very much wash the valves.

The Cruz and all the rest nowdays have added old school port injection back IN CONJUNCTION with the direct injection.

You have BOTH port and direct. You have 2 injector per cylinder.

I believe Toyota was the first to implement dual injectors with the d-4s system on the 2GR back early 2000s. If there was any before that, I never saw one

 

[danco]

Deleted.

 

[danco]

I'm pretty sure that's not how GDI engines/injectors work. The GDI injects fuel directly into the combustion chamber so no fuel passes over the intake valves to keep them clean. So, no they aren't kept clean with just the fuel or additives. You need to use a GDI Intake cleaner to get to the intake valves. I'm shocked at how people...oh, never mind.

The SC has both GDI and MPI, so the intake valves do get cleaned with fuel...

 

[Gary in NJ]

I'm pretty sure that's not how GDI engines/injectors work. The GDI injects fuel directly into the combustion chamber so no fuel passes over the intake valves to keep them clean. So, no they aren't kept clean with just the fuel or additives. You need to use a GDI Intake cleaner to get to the intake valves. I'm shocked at how people...oh, never mind.

Get up on your facts before you attempt to flame me please. Fuel injector cleaners in an engine such as the one in the SC is simply a waste of money.

 

[Akfan]

Get up on your facts before you attempt to flame me please. Fuel injector cleaners in an engine such as the one in the SC is simply a waste of money.

Id generally agree..... but since the Cruz manual suggests using it, I'd argue it could be a bargaining thing if you ever do need service, so not a complete waste. "Well I ran the recommended fuel additive" may help down the road.

I agree though that no engine should "need" such stuff. Most manufacturers actually recommend against any additives.