Theyre just selling you something you don't need.

 

That's what I figured.

 

Buy a bottle of Chevron Techron from the auto parts store and run it.

 

Most gasolines have detergents in them already.

 

top tier gas is all you should need.

 

While your statement is very correct, and the additives in a Top Tier gas will keep it cleaner overall, if a quickie mart is advertising gas a half dollar cheaper than the Shell across the street, the rare minority are going to Shell, and Hyundai is at least pointing out what is necessary, if it's only used as an emergency deterrent.

 

Hyundai basically want you running and additive on any of their gas engines now.

 

Cleans fuel injectors, intake valves, and combustion chambers.

Not on engines with direct injection, which is the vast majority now.

 

The "free" oil change is nothing more than an opportunity for a dealer to sell the average unknowing Joe bullshit they don't need.

 

The "free" oil change is nothing more than an opportunity for a dealer to sell the average unknowing Joe bullshit they don't need.

I've said this since the get-go. Nothing is "free" so they are using the opportunity of having your vehicle in the shop already to find other ways to get access to your wallet. I'm sure they have run the numbers are realize for the cost of an oil change enough suckers will buy other services to make the whole deal profitable for them. Taking up a valuable service bay for a simple oil change is not what the dealer's service department wants.

 

Hyundais additive recommendation is probably due to whatever is causing their injector failures be it poor filtering or a metal corrosion issue. Being that it keeps getting shorter would be surprised if they start requiring proof an additive is used.

 

I work for service in a dealership...that is simply a service they get a spiff on. $5 for every bottle sold for the advisor...$3 to the technician...$3 to the manager....they sell the **** on anything even if they got it done already on the last service...don't fall for it...

 

Save yourself $150 and buy some of the below. It's basically what they will use. The dealer is going to try to upsell you every time you go in - especially when you're in for the free oil change. In a few thousand more miles, they'll try to get you to change your brake fluid, steering fluid, (hahahahaha) and everything else. If it's not in the manual, DON'T DO IT. They're as bad (if not worse) than Jiffy Lube!

Get your engine hot, shut the engine off, connect the spray as directed, spray it in with the engine running (it may stall - stop spraying start the engine again and continue), when the can is empty - take it out and reconnect the hoses, let sit with the engine off for 20 - 30 minutes, start it up and drive at highway speed until the smoke stops coming out the tailpipe. It will likely run rough when you first start and it may throw some error lights (very rare), but they'll go away after it runs. I do this about every 10 - 15k on GDIs. I also add a bottle of fuel injector cleaner every two or three tanks. It's a very simple, quick, and low cost preventative maintenance program.

I've used both of these or similar.

 

I found the Hyundai branded "Fuel System Cleaner" on Amazon for $45 and the Techron for $13. Is there any real difference between the two. Can I just add this to my gas every 5000 miles or so, or do I need to use the one where I spray it into the intake valves.

Amazon.com: Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19047 Complete Fuel System Cleaner : Automotive

Buy Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19047 Complete Fuel System Cleaner: Fuel System Cleaners - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19047 Complete Fuel System Cleaner : Automotive

Buy Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19047 Complete Fuel System Cleaner: Fuel System Cleaners - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

After watching this video I believe I need to do both, buy the one that I put in my gas and buy the one that I spray to clean the intake valves since the gas get's put right into the chambers in a GDI engine and doesn't go through the intake valves.

 

After watching this video I believe I need to do both, buy the one that I put in my gas and buy the one that I spray to clean the intake valves since the gas get's put right into the chambers in a GDI engine and doesn't go through the intake valves.

Your Santa Cruz has both Multi-Port Injection and Direct Injection so, yes, fuel does go through the intake valves...

 

While your statement is very correct, and the additives in a Top Tier gas will keep it cleaner overall, if a quickie mart is advertising gas a half dollar cheaper than the Shell across the street, the rare minority are going to Shell, and Hyundai is at least pointing out what is necessary, if it's only used as an emergency deterrent.

I don't know if anyone including the penny pinching farmers i service trucks for that care about the 10 cents difference. Most people nowdays just pull in the easiest/most convenient to get to and pump. Never worry with the signage . Top tier/10 cents cheaper/vet owned/E-0....of all my customers none can tell you where they normally get gas or where it come from.... they just get it where it's convenient. My wife/ mom/ sister/ dad/ uncles etc etc etc couldn't begin to tell you if their car has citgo or whatever. Most couldn't. On a car forum people tend to be more concerned with it.

None ever have mechanical issues with the fuel system either.

I've said this since the get-go. Nothing is "free" so they are using the opportunity of having your vehicle in the shop already to find other ways to get access to your wallet. I'm sure they have run the numbers are realize for the cost of an oil change enough suckers will buy other services to make the whole deal profitable for them. Taking up a valuable service bay for a simple oil change is not what the dealer's service department wants.

They love to have a service bay filled with oil changes. You never see a shop that only does fuel pumps or only does steering racks..... yet you have entire service chains that do "only oil changes". You make a lot on them. They all mark up the oil 50%, charge for half an hour even though they do 5 minute changes, and there is very little liability or "comebacks" with oil changes. You don't have rusted up bolts to torch. You don't have stuck parts.... nothing.

At my shop I check trans, front doff, center diff, tire pressures, brake pads etc etc. And I only keep mobil 1 and oem filters for things. I don't try nor want to compete with jiffy lube or any of those guys. Lol. I don't want oil changes because I lose money. Takes me at least 30-45 minutes to check all that and change oil. But for big places with a dedicated "luber" they love them. You can get 6-8 half hour charges in, and do them in 1 hour. Plus the shop fees and markup on fluid.

Not on engines with direct injection, which is the vast majority now.

I don't know of any GDI today that doesn't also have port injecting to clean the valves. They all learned their lesson from VW/BMWs disaster.

I found the Hyundai branded "Fuel System Cleaner" on Amazon for $45 and the Techron for $13. Is there any real difference between the two. Can I just add this to my gas every 5000 miles or so, or do I need to use the one where I spray it into the intake valves.

Amazon.com: Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19047 Complete Fuel System Cleaner : Automotive

Buy Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19047 Complete Fuel System Cleaner: Fuel System Cleaners - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19047 Complete Fuel System Cleaner : Automotive

Buy Genuine Hyundai Fluid 00232-19047 Complete Fuel System Cleaner: Fuel System Cleaners - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

After watching this video I believe I need to do both, buy the one that I put in my gas and buy the one that I spray to clean the intake valves since the gas get's put right into the chambers in a GDI engine and doesn't go through the intake valves.

It also has port injection to clean the valves so no.... its not needed. Won't hurt... but likely will do nothing.

Your Santa Cruz has both Multi-Port Injection and Direct Injection so, yes, fuel does go through the intake valves...

Yep....this

Many like Toyota knew this would be a problem. Their d4-s GDI always had port injection to keep the valves clean. Used it for 20 years and never had an issue yet....Ford too.. transitioned to GDi and never had issue and nobody knew other than the HP bump . Things like that are why some companies have fewer issues and higher resale. Vw/BMW had massive issues and even had tsb involving soda/walnut blasting the valves to fix the issue.

Some companies like Toyota or Honda... you just know they did their research and you just expect top notch service. They state their brand on reputation. Thats why they need no innovation or fancy 20 year warranty or any leading edge anything......they can sell a 20 year dated design when the others start losing sales at 5 amd have to refresh. You don't expect a first year toyota or Honda to have any issues. If you buy a first year Ford/GM/Hyundai/Kia etc etc you have anxiety. And rightfully so.

Toyota and Honda have screwed up too. But a fraction of a percent of the others. I own no Honda (cars) or Toyota BTW

From what I've seen, the pour in cleaners are all pretty much the same. But the GDI engines need the spray in as well. As I said above, I do it every 10-15k miles. Pour in every other tank

GdI without port injection needed the spray. And even then most people had conpression/sealing issues at 100k or less. Again look at VW. But the companies who had just 1 engineer who understood anything about the valve train and combustion knew what would happen.

 

I don't know of any GDI today that doesn't also have port injecting to clean the valves.

Perhaps you're not familiar with Honda, GM, or Mazda as a few examples.

 

What I am curious about is this:

If the manual doesn't include anything about this prior to say 30K miles (just throwing a number out) and someone has an issue with clogged fuel injectors, prior to 30K miles, then I would think this would fall under warranty? Granted it is a big inconvenience if I can just add a bottle of additive at every oil change.

But if I follow the published service guidelines, and something breaks that is not "wear and tear" (like brake pads), then I would expect a warranty repair - otherwise, put the maintenance requirement in the manual.

 

If the manual doesn't include anything about this prior to say 30K miles (just throwing a number out) and someone has an issue with clogged fuel injectors, prior to 30K miles, then I would think this would fall under warranty?

Is this what you're looking for?

 

How often should you do a fuel induction service?

Have you not owned a fuel injected car before? The answer to this question is "do what you have always done". If you like to dump stuff in your tank...then keep doing it. I have driven many cars beyond 200k miles and have never once used a fuel additive.

 

GDI engines are different than just FI engines.

 

They love to have a service bay filled with oil changes. You never see a shop that only does fuel pumps or only does steering racks..... yet you have entire service chains that do "only oil changes". You make a lot on them. They all mark up the oil 50%, charge for half an hour even though they do 5 minute changes, and there is very little liability or "comebacks" with oil changes. You don't have rusted up bolts to torch. You don't have stuck parts.... nothing.

But for the "free" oil change the dealer is getting reimbursed by the OEM at a fixed rate, not their normal profit margin. Now if your getting an out-of-pocket oil change sure the dealer loves that easy work since they can turn-n-burn that kind of work with the most junior tech.

 

I have always used top-tier gas in all of my vehicles and will continue to do so based upon the requirements that were highlighted above

 

But for the "free" oil change the dealer is getting reimbursed by the OEM at a fixed rate, not their normal profit margin. Now if your getting an out-of-pocket oil change sure the dealer loves that easy work since they can turn-n-burn that kind of work with the most junior tech.

But they also charge the entire price of the oil for a synthetic upgrade. So they get the flat rate from hyundai, plus they get paid by the customer on those. They charge 30 minutes at 125-175 an hour and pay the lube tech 15 bucks.....they love oil changes.

GDI engines are different than just FI engines.

But these have both port and direct. Most (if not all) do now.

And the failure on GDI was never the injectors themselves. It was coked valves. You will not get that with the port/wash injection these have. Several cars have had fuel injector troubles. Bad design or bad vendors....who knows. The old 3400 toyota and the LB7 duramax were notorious for injector trouble. That could the case with the early Theta 3 we gave. Or it could be a bad batch. Who knows.

I've read of the port injectors failing as well. But it does seem to be more with the direct. Too early to tell.

As far as the injectors themselves....direct has been common for years. Forever in diesel ( before 1900) and on gas cars since the 80s mainstream and 50s on BMW and Mercedes. Nothing new or baffling about it

Ford and AMC both had gdi in the 70s but it was too expensive. Ford also had dohc v8s back then but again....costed too much to sell.

None of the crap we see today is new or great engineering. Its just cheaper to manufacture today than it was when the "real engineers" came up with it.

 

So if I'm following this correctly since the Santa Cruz has both a Direct and Multi port injection method all you need to use is top tier gas and possibly the additive you put in your gas. You do not need to use the one where you spray it into the intake valves?

 

That’s correct.
My plan is to run a bottle of Techron through after every oil change, and see what happens… 🙂

 

So if I'm following this correctly since the Santa Cruz has both a Direct and Multi port injection method all you need to use is top tier gas and possibly the additive you put in your gas. You do not need to use the one where you spray it into the intake valves?

Yes the Cruz, the Toyota, the Fords... all have old school port (manifold) injectors to wash the valves. They do this because a few companies (European cars) pushed gdi without it and the valves got dirty. It was a big issue... and not if but when. It became an issue with high compression/ turbo/ heat. In the old 50s-90s engines it wasn't such an issue. In diesel the intake doesn't run under vacuum all the time so it wasn't an issue in those either for the past 130 years.

Cleaning anything won't hurt most likely. Usually is a good thing. But If your injector fails and Hyundai knows you was spraying stuff into the intake track..... will they even warranty your car or will they say you blew trash into the combustion chamber and ruined your injector?? Who knows..... not I. I do know that when doing intake manifold injection.... you do smoke which means you ware in fact blowing crap into the combustion chamber. Even on cars that were not all that dirty, well before GDI. Thats not debatable.

But yes all gas direct injected (gdi) cars that I'm aware of have port injection to clean the valves now. The Cruz does.

 

GDI engines are different than just FI engines.

The fuel injector itself has no idea where it is mounted and how it is used. It is simply a high pressure solenoid valve. That's it...not special.

Also, know that the engine has both port and direct injectors - and both are kept clean and working with high quality fuel.

I'm shocked at how people on this forum over think everything.

 

The fuel injector itself has no idea where it is mounted and how it is used. It is simply a high pressure solenoid valve. That's it...not special.

Also, know that the engine has both port and direct injectors - and both are kept clean and working with high quality fuel.

I'm shocked at how people on this forum over think everything.

I'm pretty sure that's not how GDI engines/injectors work. The GDI injects fuel directly into the combustion chamber so no fuel passes over the intake valves to keep them clean. So, no they aren't kept clean with just the fuel or additives. You need to use a GDI Intake cleaner to get to the intake valves. I'm shocked at how people...oh, never mind.

 

The fuel injector itself has no idea where it is mounted and how it is used. It is simply a high pressure solenoid valve. That's it...not special.

Also, know that the engine has both port and direct injectors - and both are kept clean and working with high quality fuel.

I'm shocked at how people on this forum over think everything.

Its a good deal higher pressure though. 30-50 psi for port and 2000 psi for direct. Still nothing special since diesel have been running 30k psi direct injectors for years. Lol. Direct injection has been used off/on and on different formats as long as any injection. Again. 50s Mercedes used direct injecting when we used carbs in the 80s. Lol. Gdi has been used since the 1910s.

 

I'm pretty sure that's not how GDI engines/injectors work. The GDI injects fuel directly into the combustion chamber so no fuel passes over the intake valves to keep them clean. So, no they aren't kept clean with just the fuel or additives. You need to use a GDI Intake cleaner to get to the intake valves. I'm shocked at how people...oh, never mind.

But again......in the Cruz. Inthe Toyota d4-s.....in the fords..... THEY DO HAVE port injectors as well. They do very much wash the valves.

The Cruz and all the rest nowdays have added old school port injection back IN CONJUNCTION with the direct injection.

You have BOTH port and direct. You have 2 injector per cylinder.

I believe Toyota was the first to implement dual injectors with the d-4s system on the 2GR back early 2000s. If there was any before that, I never saw one

 

I'm pretty sure that's not how GDI engines/injectors work. The GDI injects fuel directly into the combustion chamber so no fuel passes over the intake valves to keep them clean. So, no they aren't kept clean with just the fuel or additives. You need to use a GDI Intake cleaner to get to the intake valves. I'm shocked at how people...oh, never mind.

Get up on your facts before you attempt to flame me please. Fuel injector cleaners in an engine such as the one in the SC is simply a waste of money.

 

Get up on your facts before you attempt to flame me please. Fuel injector cleaners in an engine such as the one in the SC is simply a waste of money.

Id generally agree..... but since the Cruz manual suggests using it, I'd argue it could be a bargaining thing if you ever do need service, so not a complete waste. "Well I ran the recommended fuel additive" may help down the road.

I agree though that no engine should "need" such stuff. Most manufacturers actually recommend against any additives.

 

I do the same thing but with Exxon/Mobil.

Thats great and I'm all for saving money

I drive everywhere and live in the middle of nowhere. Its not worth 2 bucks (10 cent x20 gallon) for me to waste even 2 minutes looking for any one brand when I'm out and at home if I'm out there are few choices.

For the most part I wouldn't even cross a 4 lane and struggle to pull back out for 2 dollars..... much less have to Google and hunt and GPS it.....assuming 25 MPG and you drive 10k a year that's saving 40 bucks a year...thats 8 Happy meal.....

If its convenient id do it though. I did have a card I used locally at a QP that gave me 10 cents. If I filled at the same station all the time I'd sure do it.

I paid 2.75 for a 20 oz mt dew for my kid the other day....

I do use a credit card on all my fuel....so I get that 2% cash back PLUS its super easy to itemize at tax time that way and works anywhere

 

Thats great and I'm all for saving money

I drive everywhere and live in the middle of nowhere. Its not worth 2 bucks (10 cent x20 gallon) for me to waste even 2 minutes looking for any one brand when I'm out and at home if I'm out there are few choices.

For the most part I wouldn't even cross a 4 lane and struggle to pull back out for 2 dollars..... much less have to Google and hunt and GPS it.....assuming 25 MPG and you drive 10k a year that's saving 40 bucks a year...thats 8 Happy meal.....

If its convenient id do it though. I did have a card I used locally at a QP that gave me 10 cents. If I filled at the same station all the time I'd sure do it.

I paid 2.75 for a 20 oz mt dew for my kid the other day....

I do use a credit card on all my fuel....so I get that 2% cash back PLUS its super easy to itemize at tax time that way and works anywhere

Fortunately I do go by the same Exxon stations fairly routinely, one of which, strangely, happens to always be cheaper than anyone else for miles, even Sam’s.